Love this - I’m often amazed by the difference a translation can make. My friend and I often look at Neruda’s work (my friend reads the Spanish version and I look at the English) to discuss the nuances between the vocabulary and ideas. Don Quixote is another one where the different translations are interesting to look at. It’s incredible to think a text could actually be perceived very differently depending on the translation choices. I think it must be so tough in poetry - do you focus on the closest vocabulary, thereby possibly changing the rhythm or rhyme?
That's cool - I almost picked Neruda for N and would've probably done the same, I've got a side-to-side translation somewhere! Yeah like you say it's almost impossible at the best of times, but with poetry it's even more impossible. Like this translation is definitely just focusing on the closest vocabulary, but as Jane said above, that means something huge is lost in the playfulness of the rhyming in the original.
Neruda is one of my absolute favourites. I guess it comes down to how important either is to the overall meaning of the poem - if the rhyme is significant enough they ought to try to keep it, but for me, I always fixate a bit on the connotations of the vocab - it’s so hard! Someone once said that literature just shouldn’t be translated into different languages and I don’t know how I feel about that to this day 🤣
I guess the only alternative is to meet the literature where it is and learn all the languages of the world yourself! Feels a bit late for that, I should've started earlier...
Yeah, shameful effort by you to be honest. I’m always so jealous of anyone who speaks multiple languages - I can just about manage a bit of French and that’s it… I think mostly I don’t agree that we shouldn’t translate literature - so many of my favourite pieces were not originally English that I can’t imagine life without them.
Poetry in translation is always extremely tricky. In this case, a literal translation loses the rhythm and the playfulness of the rhymes. I'm not convinced of the worth of a literal translation. To my mind, an adaptation keeping the meter and rhyme scheme would be more satisfying, but perhaps the idea isn't to try to render the 'poem' in English, just the words of the poem..
Yeah this one was definitely more literal. I did try to read the French one out loud to myself and there were definitely rhythms and rhymes lost here! I always find it interesting that 'translation' is 'traduction'. To translate is to traduce!
I had a go at writing an English version of Rimbaud’s Le dormeur du val. It’s a lovely poem, with a rhythm that extends beyond the line breaks. The English translation I found of it had flattened it and sucked out all the beauty. I m proud of my version and one day I shall post it on substack.
I will. Just spent all morning writing a version of Boris Vian’s Le Déerteur. It’s a great anti-war song and there is nothing song-like about the translation.
Have you read Raymond Queneau's "Exercices de Style"? It's the same little snippet of daily life written over and over in a different style each time. Well worth brushing up your French for!
Love this - I’m often amazed by the difference a translation can make. My friend and I often look at Neruda’s work (my friend reads the Spanish version and I look at the English) to discuss the nuances between the vocabulary and ideas. Don Quixote is another one where the different translations are interesting to look at. It’s incredible to think a text could actually be perceived very differently depending on the translation choices. I think it must be so tough in poetry - do you focus on the closest vocabulary, thereby possibly changing the rhythm or rhyme?
That's cool - I almost picked Neruda for N and would've probably done the same, I've got a side-to-side translation somewhere! Yeah like you say it's almost impossible at the best of times, but with poetry it's even more impossible. Like this translation is definitely just focusing on the closest vocabulary, but as Jane said above, that means something huge is lost in the playfulness of the rhyming in the original.
Neruda is one of my absolute favourites. I guess it comes down to how important either is to the overall meaning of the poem - if the rhyme is significant enough they ought to try to keep it, but for me, I always fixate a bit on the connotations of the vocab - it’s so hard! Someone once said that literature just shouldn’t be translated into different languages and I don’t know how I feel about that to this day 🤣
I guess the only alternative is to meet the literature where it is and learn all the languages of the world yourself! Feels a bit late for that, I should've started earlier...
Yeah, shameful effort by you to be honest. I’m always so jealous of anyone who speaks multiple languages - I can just about manage a bit of French and that’s it… I think mostly I don’t agree that we shouldn’t translate literature - so many of my favourite pieces were not originally English that I can’t imagine life without them.
Poetry in translation is always extremely tricky. In this case, a literal translation loses the rhythm and the playfulness of the rhymes. I'm not convinced of the worth of a literal translation. To my mind, an adaptation keeping the meter and rhyme scheme would be more satisfying, but perhaps the idea isn't to try to render the 'poem' in English, just the words of the poem..
Yeah this one was definitely more literal. I did try to read the French one out loud to myself and there were definitely rhythms and rhymes lost here! I always find it interesting that 'translation' is 'traduction'. To translate is to traduce!
Traduttore = traditore and traduire = trahir.
I had a go at writing an English version of Rimbaud’s Le dormeur du val. It’s a lovely poem, with a rhythm that extends beyond the line breaks. The English translation I found of it had flattened it and sucked out all the beauty. I m proud of my version and one day I shall post it on substack.
Let me know if you do, I'd like to see that!
I will. Just spent all morning writing a version of Boris Vian’s Le Déerteur. It’s a great anti-war song and there is nothing song-like about the translation.
We could definitely do with some anti war songs...
They always seem to be needed, unfortunately.
Have you read Raymond Queneau's "Exercices de Style"? It's the same little snippet of daily life written over and over in a different style each time. Well worth brushing up your French for!
No I haven't, but that sounds interesting, thank you!